Pisces - Revision history

Sushoff: /* Setting (Lib II Cap VI §10) */

2026-02-27T18:45:28Z

Setting (Lib II Cap VI §10)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:45, 27 February 2026
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	=====Hipparchus=====		=====Hipparchus=====

	====== Rising (Lib II Cap V §10) ======		====== Rising (Lib III Cap V §10) ======
	<blockquote>The Rising of ...</blockquote>		<blockquote>The Rising of ...</blockquote>
	{\| class="wikitable"		{\| class="wikitable"
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	\|}		\|}

	====== Setting (Lib II Cap ~~VI §10~~) ======		====== Setting (Lib III Cap IV §9) ======
	{\| class="wikitable"		{\| class="wikitable"
	!		!
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	\|-		\|-
	\|		\|
	\|		\|Aqr 23
	\|		\|Ari 5
	\|		\|Tau 17
	\|		\|Cnc 6
	\|-		\|-
	\|		\|
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	\|-		\|-
	\|star		\|star
	\|		\|the one at the end of the mouth of the southern one of the two fish
	\|		\|the one at the end of the mouth of the northern fish
	\|		\|
	\|		\|
	\|-		\|-
	\|duration		\|duration
	\| colspan="4" \|2 ~~2/3~~ hours = ~~160~~ min = ~~40°~~		\| colspan="4" \|3 1/2 hours = 210 min = 52 1/2°
	\|}		\|}

Sushoff: /* Rising (Lib II Cap V §10) */

2026-02-27T17:58:24Z

Rising (Lib II Cap V §10)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:58, 27 February 2026
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	\|-		\|-
	\|		\|
	\|		\|Aqr 7
	\|		\|Ari 16
	\|		\|Sco 26
	\|		\|Cap 9
	\|-		\|-
	\|		\|
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	\|-		\|-
	\|star		\|star
	\|		\|the one at the end of the mouth of the southern fish
	\|		\|the one in the knot of the ribbon
	\|		\|
	\|		\|
	\|-		\|-
	\|duration		\|duration
	\| colspan="4" \|2 1/8 hours = ~~127.5~~ min = ~~31 7~~/8 degree		\| colspan="4" \|3 1/10 hours = 186 min = 46 1/2 degree
	\|}		\|}

Sushoff at 12:38, 27 February 2026

2026-02-27T12:38:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:38, 27 February 2026
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	=== Origin of Constellation ===		=== Origin of Constellation ===
	Two fish tied together with a ribbon: this image is incomprehensible, and it was already so in ancient times. It originated in Mesopotamia as a zodiac constellation, and in the second half of the first millennium, there were strange new interpretations of it that probably not everyone understood even then. Seal depictions from Uruk show a fish and a bird connected by a pointed ribbon. The image is called the swallowfish and could be a visualisation of a word – swallow and fish, linked by a ribbon. In fact, there is a certain species of flying fish in the Mediterranean today that is called this, but whether this is what is meant here is lost in the mists of time.		<ref>Hoffmann, Susanne M. Wie der Löwe an den Himmel kam. Franckh Kosmos Verlag, Stuttgart 2021</ref>Two fish tied together with a ribbon: this image is incomprehensible, and it was already so in ancient times. It originated in Mesopotamia as a zodiac constellation, and in the second half of the first millennium, there were strange new interpretations of it that probably not everyone understood even then. Seal depictions from Uruk show a fish and a bird connected by a pointed ribbon. The image is called the swallowfish and could be a visualisation of a word – swallow and fish, linked by a ribbon. In fact, there is a certain species of flying fish in the Mediterranean today that is called this, but whether this is what is meant here is lost in the mists of time.

	In Uruk, the constellation may have been called swallow fish in the Seleucid period, but in Babylon it never had this name (as far as we know). In the diaries of mathematical astronomy, the names are always abbreviated and there it says ‘tails’. If we go back a millennium and look in MUL.APIN, we find the full name ‘Tails of the Giant Swallow’ ([[ZIB\|ZIBme]]). The V-shaped band is actually a swallowtail. It is the part of the ancient constellation Giant Swallow ([[SIM.MAḪ]]) through which the Sun, Moon and planets travel.		In Uruk, the constellation may have been called swallow fish in the Seleucid period, but in Babylon it never had this name (as far as we know). In the diaries of mathematical astronomy, the names are always abbreviated and there it says ‘tails’. If we go back a millennium and look in MUL.APIN, we find the full name ‘Tails of the Giant Swallow’ ([[ZIB\|ZIBme]]). The V-shaped band is actually a swallowtail. It is the part of the ancient constellation Giant Swallow ([[SIM.MAḪ]]) through which the Sun, Moon and planets travel.

Sushoff: /* Mythology */

2026-02-26T20:01:02Z

Mythology

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:01, 26 February 2026
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	==Mythology==		==Mythology==
			Eratosthenes notes succinctly: ‘The fish are descendants of the Great Fish,’ referring to what we call [[Piscis Austrinus]], the Southern Fish. He does not recount any legends about it.

			In Roman times, Pseudo-Hyginus and Ovid make a very brief mention that Venus (Aphrodite) and her son Cupid (Eros) were fleeing from the storm demon Typhon. When they came to a river, they jumped fearfully into the water. In Ovid's version of the story, they called on the nymphs for help and twin fish came to bring them to safety. In another version, they themselves were turned into fish.

			The Typhon myth is already documented by Hesiod, but this detail is not found in his story, especially since the constellation Pisces did not yet exist at the time of Hesiod (around 700 BCE). The Roman myth seems to be based on the constellation. The constellation myth then explains the ribbon as the ribbon of motherly love.

			Hyginus (also 1st century CE) tells another version of the fairy tale. According to this, two fish rolled an egg that had fallen into the Euphrates ashore. There it was hatched by doves and Aphrodite hatched from it. This story contradicts Hesiod's version of Aphrodite's birth ‘from the foam of the sea’, which gives the constellation its name: (-7th century): αφρός (aphrós) means foam. It is certainly borrowed from a foreign culture. The Euphrates as the setting is noteworthy. This could indicate the Mesopotamian origin of the constellation or a variant of the Syrian Derkato myth (see [[Andromeda]]). However, it may also be a mythological description of the constellation's history, because a huge egg made up of faint stars can be seen in the area east of [[Pegasus]]. The lower part of this egg is called the ellipse of the northern of the two fish in Greek, while the upper part of the egg belongs to the constellation Andromeda, which is equated with Aphrodite Urania.

			None of the variants is convincing, because Babylonian mathematical astronomy never called the constellation ‘fish’ and did not need a myth.

	==Weblinks==		==Weblinks==

Sushoff: /* Etymology and History */

2026-02-26T19:58:34Z

Etymology and History

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:58, 26 February 2026
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	==Etymology and History ==		==Etymology and History ==
	~~The Greek constellation ...~~
			=== Origin of Constellation ===
	===Origin of Constellation===		Two fish tied together with a ribbon: this image is incomprehensible, and it was already so in ancient times. It originated in Mesopotamia as a zodiac constellation, and in the second half of the first millennium, there were strange new interpretations of it that probably not everyone understood even then. Seal depictions from Uruk show a fish and a bird connected by a pointed ribbon. The image is called the swallowfish and could be a visualisation of a word – swallow and fish, linked by a ribbon. In fact, there is a certain species of flying fish in the Mediterranean today that is called this, but whether this is what is meant here is lost in the mists of time.

			In Uruk, the constellation may have been called swallow fish in the Seleucid period, but in Babylon it never had this name (as far as we know). In the diaries of mathematical astronomy, the names are always abbreviated and there it says ‘tails’. If we go back a millennium and look in MUL.APIN, we find the full name ‘Tails of the Giant Swallow’ ([[ZIB\|ZIBme]]). The V-shaped band is actually a swallowtail. It is the part of the ancient constellation Giant Swallow ([[SIM.MAḪ]]) through which the Sun, Moon and planets travel.

			Here we can see a gradual reinterpretation of the figure over the centuries. In the 2nd millennium, the constellation was called Giant Swallow and was a calendar sign because the month was determined by the heliacal risings. In autumn, when the swallows fly south, the constellation is visible in the sky almost all night long – however, there is no evidence that any symbolism was derived from this.

			In the 1st millennium, a project for an ‘astronomical database’ was developed in the city of Babylon, the so-called ‘diary project’, in which data was collected that could be used to establish causal relationships. The technical style of notation for this data set favours abbreviations. The group ‘tails of the giant swallow’ technically becomes the constellation and zodiac sign Tails.

			Because the meaning has been forgotten – at least since it was received by the Greeks – it now seems to have been approached figuratively: the neighbouring Mesopotamian constellation ‘Great God’ ([[E2-a\|Ea]]) is often depicted with a bird on its arm, which is now separated as a small swallow of the swallow fish. This could be explained purely graphically. The fish of the swallow fish is likely to originate from the North Mesopotamian or Syrian variant of [[Andromeda]], whose legend is linked there to a large fish (or dolphin). The foreign gods (Ishtar and Ea) are thus reinterpreted as heroes in Greek culture, and their attributes are grouped into a new constellation that turns out to be a play on words: the genus ‘Swallow Fish’ is depicted as a swallow and a fish.

			If the fish had been a Greek constellation, they could have been connected because of the Babylonian swallowtail. Alternatively, a Mesopotamian image of a bird and a fish was later reinterpreted in Greek as two fish. The ribbon connecting them had been misunderstood for almost a millennium, and in Roman times the story was invented that the ribbon was a visualisation of their love for each other.

	====Babylonian====		====Babylonian====

Sushoff: /* Hipparchus */

2026-02-22T17:55:01Z

Hipparchus

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:55, 22 February 2026
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	=====Hipparchus=====		=====Hipparchus=====

			====== Rising (Lib II Cap V §10) ======
			<blockquote>The Rising of ...</blockquote>
			{\| class="wikitable"
			\|+
			!
			! colspan="2" \|east
			! colspan="2" \|south
			\|-
			!
			!lam1
			!lam2
			!lam1
			!lam2
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|-
			\|star
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|-
			\|duration
			\| colspan="4" \|2 1/8 hours = 127.5 min = 31 7/8 degree
			\|}

			====== Setting (Lib II Cap VI §10) ======
			{\| class="wikitable"
			!
			! colspan="2" \|west
			! colspan="2" \|south
			\|-
			!
			!lam1
			!lam2
			!lam1
			!lam2
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|-
			\|star
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|-
			\|duration
			\| colspan="4" \|2 2/3 hours = 160 min = 40°
			\|}

			====== Stars Mentioned ======
			{\| class="wikitable"
			\|+
			!
			!Greek
			!German
			!English
			!ident.
			!src
			!
			!lam_culm
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|Lib II Cap V §10
			\|rising, east, first
			\|
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|Lib II Cap V §10
			\|rising, east, last
			\|
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|Lib II Cap VI §2
			\|setting CrB, south, last
			\|Psc 13.5
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|Lib II Cap VI §13
			\|setting Aql, south, first
			\|Ari 2
			\|-
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|
			\|Lib III Cap I §9
			\|rising Ori, south, last
			\|Psc 13
			\|}

	===== Hyginus, Astronomica =====		===== Hyginus, Astronomica =====

YoulaAzkarrula: /* Almagest Ἰχθύες */

2026-02-06T10:12:53Z

Almagest Ἰχθύες

Show changes

Sushoff at 13:31, 20 January 2026

2026-01-20T13:31:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:31, 20 January 2026
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			Authors: {{PAGEAUTHORS}}
			----
	[[File:Pisces (psc).tiff\|thumb\|Pisces. IAU and Sky & Telescope]]		[[File:Pisces (psc).tiff\|thumb\|Pisces. IAU and Sky & Telescope]]
	One of the [[:Category:88_IAU-Constellations\|88 IAU constellations]]. The constellation Pisces emerged in rather late time in antiquity. Its origin is yet unexplained but it occurs in written Greek sources (Aratus, Eratosthenes, Hipparchus, Ptolemy) and it is depicted in the circular Denderah zodiac dating to Roman time Egypt. Babylonian sources do not have this constellations.		One of the [[:Category:88_IAU-Constellations\|88 IAU constellations]]. The constellation Pisces emerged in rather late time in antiquity. Its origin is yet unexplained but it occurs in written Greek sources (Aratus, Eratosthenes, Hipparchus, Ptolemy) and it is depicted in the circular Denderah zodiac dating to Roman time Egypt. Babylonian sources do not have this constellations.

Sushoff at 13:09, 19 December 2025

2025-12-19T13:09:59Z

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 ====Babylonian====
-There has never been a constellation of 'a group of fish' in ancient Mesopotamia. The Mesopotamian constellation in this area was [[KUN|KUN<sup>me(š)</sup>]]  ša [[SIM.MAḪ|<sup>mul</sup>SIM.MAḪ]], The Tails of the Swallow.<gallery>
+There has never been a constellation of 'a group of fish' in ancient Mesopotamia. The Mesopotamian constellation in this area was [[KUN|KUN<sup>me(š)</sup>]]  ša [[SIM.MAḪ|<sup>mul</sup>SIM.MAḪ]], The Tails of the Swallow.
 File:Psc+ari+aqr+and.jpg|Dumuzi, the shepherd god, as Hired Man, as lover of Inanna who is depicted in the constellation Anunitu(m); both east of the One Field-constellation (IKU), and north of the Swallow SIM.MAH and the giant, GU.LA, the god Enki/Ea. Drawings by Robert Perdok and Susanne M Hoffmann 2016, mapped in Stellarium.
-File:Psc SwallowFish seal Wallenfels1993.png|Psc as Swallow-Fish on seal from Uruk (Wallenfels 1993).
+File:Stellarium Swallow+ MULAPIN.jpg|Giant Swallow (MUL.APIN) with its tails in the path of the Moon (Stellarium, painting by Jessica Gullberg).
 </gallery>

Sushoff: /* Babylonian */

2025-12-19T07:02:05Z

Babylonian

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:02, 19 December 2025
Line 8:		Line 8:

	====Babylonian====		====Babylonian====
	There has never been a constellation of 'a group of fish' in ancient Mesopotamia. The Mesopotamian constellation in this area was [[KUN\|KUN<sup>me(š)</sup>]] ša [[SIM.MAḪ\|<sup>mul</sup>SIM.MAḪ]], The Tails of the Swallow.		There has never been a constellation of 'a group of fish' in ancient Mesopotamia. The Mesopotamian constellation in this area was [[KUN\|KUN<sup>me(š)</sup>]] ša [[SIM.MAḪ\|<sup>mul</sup>SIM.MAḪ]], The Tails of the Swallow.<gallery>
			File:Psc+ari+aqr+and.jpg\|Dumuzi, the shepherd god, as Hired Man, as lover of Inanna who is depicted in the constellation Anunitu(m); both east of the One Field-constellation (IKU), and north of the Swallow SIM.MAH and the giant, GU.LA, the god Enki/Ea. Drawings by Robert Perdok and Susanne M Hoffmann 2016, mapped in Stellarium.
			File:Psc SwallowFish seal Wallenfels1993.png\|Psc as Swallow-Fish on seal from Uruk (Wallenfels 1993).
			</gallery>

	====Greco-Roman====		====Greco-Roman====